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 Post subject: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 9:31 am 
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Ever wonder where in the world the JW's get the idea that Jesus is a created being instead of eternal like Jehovah? I knew as a Witness I had read about Jesus' being created somewhere in the Bible, but after so many years I couldn't remember where.

Then our pastor gave us an assignment. Since Proverbs has 31 chapters, it's very easy to read in one month, one chapter per day. I took on the challenge and began reading the book of Proverbs. (Side note: Everyone should try this. It'll take about 10 minutes per day but what is learned is priceless). I got to chapter 8, and found the verses that I'd remembered being the "proof" of Jesus' creation:

"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
"Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD.
But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death."
- Proverbs 8:22-36

I had believed that this was a description of Jesus, and proved that He was created because that's what verse 22 stated. The difference this time was that I'd already read chapters 1-7 of Proverbs, plus verses 1-21 of chapter 8, and realized that this is not about Jesus Christ AT ALL. Proverbs describes wisdom as a woman, and this is seen throughout the first chapters of the book. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that these verses refer to Jesus, and all the proof that it is talking about wisdom personified. Once again, if we just read the Bible for ourselves instead of picking and choosing a few verses, we can clearly see God's truth. Contrary to what the WTS insists, God made the Bible simple enough for anyone to understand. The only aid we need to understand His Word is the Holy Spirit, who is only too glad to help anyone who asks.

Blessings,

Mrs. R

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"He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit" - Titus 3:5


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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Mrs. R wrote:
The only aid we need to understand His Word is the Holy Spirit, who is only too glad to help anyone who asks.

AMEN!


Great info Mrs. R!

Really shows the importance of reading Bible verses in context, thanks.

Starting Proverbs chapter one today. :P

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Today's "Quote Worth Re-quoting"
“Many people think they have an open mind when it is really their mouth.”



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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 1:48 pm 
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I agree! I am very fond of reading Proverbs and I have always known Wisdom as a woman. It's like learning about life from listening to my grandparents who had been there.

Thank you for sharing, Mrs. R.!


Batty

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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Batty wrote:
I have always known Wisdom as a woman.


Nice not to have to unlearn stuff. :wink:

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Cal Lehman

Today's "Quote Worth Re-quoting"
“Many people think they have an open mind when it is really their mouth.”



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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 4:53 pm 
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You're right, Mrs. R! And I noticed that right after the passage you cited, the very next verse (9:1) speaks of Wisdom as a female character again!

The rampant WTS practice of cherry-picking Scripture, like the example you pointed out here and in your Luke 10 post, was one of the primary reasons I concluded that the JWs were NOT God's organization. The other main reason was when my host sister Daniela told me that the JWs decide whether or not a person is truly repentant of their sins based on their participation in the org, rather than acknowledging that only God can know whether or not a person has truly repented of their sin.

Jay

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But God put his love on the line for us by offering his Son in sacrificial death when we were of no use whatever to him. Romans 5:8, The Message


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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 1:25 am 
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Good stuff Mrs.R (as usual) once I finish this years "read the bible in a year" I'm going to take your suggestion. Again, thanks for the insights.

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I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be!! (Martin Luther King Jr. Author)


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 Post subject: Re: Proverbs chapter 8
PostPosted: Sat 15 Aug, 2009 9:30 pm 
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HI Mrs. R,

I felt the same way when I read it in full context and realized that wisdom was spoken of in the feminine context and that this description was wisdom personified as a woman.

It is amazing how scriptures can take on a completely different meaning when taken out of context and manipulated isn't it?

Thank you for bringing this up.

Wendy

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