I've been talking to this JW lady since September, she and her friends came by and wanted to do a "Bible Study." Lonely mom of 4 with a strong Christian background (in otherwards, I'm not afraid that she's going to convince me of anything) decided talking to someone once a week can't be too bad since we live far from anyone. I decided it would be a good way to challenge my thinking and get me to KNOW what I believe in. Soon after, the friends stopped showing up with her and it was me and the JW lady, R. R started calling me and we talk and she is trying to get me to read the "What does the Bible REALLY Teach" book. The long and the short of it is that we can't get thru it because we keep finding areas where we disagree.

So I'm coming to the conclusion that if you strip everything away - only 144,000 go to heaven, Jesus is a created being, Michael the archangel, Christ received his earthly kingdom in 1914 (or whatever, still can't get my brain around that one), etc the bottom line is that they believe that God's purpose is to re-establish what was destroyed when Adam sinned. This beautiful paradise on earth where there are no bad things and everyone is happy, etc. When I read my Bible I see that the purpose was God having a relationship with us and He created the earth for us and told us to be fruitful and multiply because He loved us. When Adam sinned that broke the fellowship He had with us so He provided a way for us to access Him in that fellowship - Jesus. God's purpose is still there, for us to have a relationship with Him, but because sin separates us, He provided a way-Christ dying on the cross. Jesus is now The Way, The Truth and The Life, no man come to the Father except by Him (Erica's translation, lol).

When you look at Scriptures and see it with the mindset of God's purpose of creating a perfect world instead having a relationship with Him, it totally reads different. So because we don't have that common ground, everything we talk about is off. I don't know that there is anything left for us to say until we come to a common ground. I certainly am not going to change my view and she is so full of "acurate knowlege" I don't kow that she's going to change her view.

Is it even worth continuing our conversations? Wow, this is long!

Hey, No I don't think you should give up. I just think you might want to read a book by Duane Magnani...It's called "A problem of communication." This book has really helped me with my JW boyfriend. You can find it on: http://www.witnessinc.com/index.html

Please read this book! It's exactly what you're encountering.

Hope that helps.

Lauren

Oh I'm so glad you gave me that link! I'm getting the book right now. The lady is very nice (I mean of corse she is but I really care about her). I want to be able to reach her. I do know that I need to be in prayer for her a lot more than I am. Thanks again for that site, can't wait to get the book!
E

Wow Lauren! What a great site! And the man that answered the phone, was so awesome! He gave me some awesome tips regarding the new kingdom on the earth and how their own publications contradict when Jesus was suppose to establish his kindom on earth.

Thanks again Lauren and I can't wait to get my book! I also got the book they wrote about the faithful and wise servent. Now I just need to pray more and drench myself in His Word!

Erica

hey! You're welcome! No problem...it's really helped me as well. I also ordered the faithful and wise servant and I'm really studying it so I can present it to my boyfriend in the next month or so...I want to really know it and pray hard before I present this controversial info!
So what kind of tips and contradictions did he give you on the kingdom on earth?...that is a tricky subject for me too!

lauren

I can't seem to find my notes so I need to clean up my desk are today (I feel like such a scatterbrain!) Anyway, once I find it again, I will present the contradictions here as a rehersal. I'm afraid I'll loose my confidence before Wed when I talk to her again. If for some reason I can't find it, I'll email the website again and see if he can email what he told me.

Erica

hey erica! do not worry about it...I was just curious...please don't burden yourself...you have enough to think about it. don't worry about words to say...just trust God to give you the words. your confidence is in Christ!

lauren

Interesting....let us know if this does any good.

Hi sorry about not responding sooner. I usually don't post because it takes me so long sometimes to get my thoughts into words. We just recently moved and my time and energy has been filled with organizing cleaning and painting. A small house, but none the less a huge task! everything needs painting, inside and out!

I spent a year talking to a witness, and I understand the frustration.
here are some things I learned along the way-

Maybe you know this already-then it can't help to be reminded and encouraged
Maybe these will be new points and might also help you!

First and formost start and precede everything in prayer!

without it we could talk till we are blue in the face and make very good points, but without God working through us and in the witnesses hearts-nothing will happen!

Pray, pray, and pray!!!

And then trust that God is working in their hearts. Ask him to help you plant the seeds in their hearts and that he will allow those seeds to grow! I read that even though a witness may be thinking about what you said, They won't show it on the outside.
I think this is a case of walking by faith and not by sight. Trusting God with the results.
Take a long term veiw point. You may not see immediate results of your conversations.
Plant the seeds and realize it may take years for the seeds to grow.
God sometimes works and changes people overnight, and sometimes it is a process where God is working and changing them little by little-it may take months or years. But if we are praying, we can be assured that God is working!!!!!!


To your original question: God's purpose.

It seems to me that the book asks the wrong question.
It asks: what is God's purpose for the earth?
Instead it should be " why did God create us? what is man's purpose? what does God want from us? Is it simply to fill the earth and live happy lives? Does he simply want us to obey all his rules and regulations?
no. He wants our hearts and our minds. what does this mean?

Relationship! He wants a loving relationship with us.
an intimate loving relationship.

Think how it must have been for Adam and Eve to know God intimatly.
That's what God wants! He created us for a relationship.
God is Love. what is Love without relationship?

It doesn't matter whether I am on earth or in heaven, what is important to me is having a relationship with God. Isn't that our ultimate purpose. All though the Bible that is God's Goal for mankind.

Don't get sidetrack on issues-like heaven/earth, will Adam be forgiven or not. listen as they bring different things up, maybe even talk about them, plant seeds, instead of winning arguements or debates.
Go back to your main pt.- which in this case would be a relationship! Realizing that living on paradise earth or not isn't the issue! It is being in God presence and having an intimate loving relationship w/ Him.

what separates us from that relationship - sin!
This is another seed to plant and a whole different conversation or for another time.
adamic sin/ personal sin
there is a disconnect in the book. you could bring that up. The book emphasizes adamic sin -
but it misses the point of the issue of personal sin.

learn how they think about Jesus's ransom-
I have been studying the issue of forgivness of sin/justification. how I see it and how they see it. My main question for them is how are the other sheep's sins forgiven? The Bible teaches how the 144000 sins are justifies/forgiven.

I was told that the sin was paid for when they died.
I am slill working on finding a way for them to understand the concept of personal sin.
by studing thier litiature and studying how it really is.

Remember pray and plant seeds!

I am listening to an excellent sermon series on prayer. The web site is http://www.tellingthetruth.org/
click on the earphones and then to the archives, go read through till you come to the ones on prayer. This is a great ministry. the Briscoes are on target with thier teaching!
listen, enjoy, and deepen your walk with God!

Love in Christ,

Skylark