TowerWatch Ministries • View topic - Mincan's Intro

Former Jehovah’s Witnesses and others creating a warm Christian atmosphere


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Well, she has closed her mind now. It really doesn't do any good to continue trying to convert her. She doesn't want it right now. You can't force people to open their minds. When someone is ready they will find a way to reconcile what they know with what they want to know. I just want to help her along, I don't want to drive a wedge between us.

This is how far we got on the UN scandal:
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Actually, they did have to put in their publications information that "supports the goals of the UN" that was one of the requirements for the entire ten years they were a member, from 1991-2001.

What exactly were the requirements for all Churches associated as NGOs (yes all non-political groups sign up as NGOs, the Watchtower was as much a member of the UN as is the Catholic Church): This is the quote from the NGO charter:

Share the ideals of the UN Charter;
Operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
Have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;
Have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins, and pamphlets; organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.

Why was a resolution not passed at the Conventions telling the rank and file about this decision to join "the great harlot"? This is the resolution passed at the 1963 "Everlasting Good News" Convention:

WE JEHOVAH'S witnesses, met together in [City, State, Country], in one of the "Everlasting Good News" assemblies being held in a continuous chain around the whole world this year of 1963, do this day declare and resolve as follows:

5 THAT, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to God's Messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the United Nations, with international headquarters at New York city. This international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men. For years men without faith in God's kingdom have endeavored to get all people to worship this international image of human political sovereignty as the best hope for earthly peace and security, in fact, the last hope for humanity. To date 111 nations have given worship to this political image by becoming members of it. However, we, as witnesses of the Sovereign God Jehovah, will continue refusing to engage in such idolatrous worship, for we see, under angelic enlightenment, that God has smitten such idolaters with a malignant ulcer, symbolically speaking, that will spell death to them as spiritually diseased image worshipers who worship a man-made political creation rather than the Creator of heaven and earth;

Seems that joining the UN was not something that Jehovah's orginisation could do.

Take a look at the Awake of November 22nd, 1998 for the most boistrous support of the UN you could imagine. And remember that the Watchtower had to write articles such as these as part of their full fledged NGO status within the UN. This article will shock you now that you read it with your mind open. It doesn't sound at all like the fiery condemnation the Watchtower usually spouts out about the evil orginisation that Jehovah's people would never join as it is unclean.

Okay, all of this is from the research I have done. And all of this is documented. If you would like copies of the letters from either end of this thing, watchtower of UN, let me know and I will send the scans of them to you.
Brandon
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she replied with:

no I don't. There will not be much more that I can say to any of your rebuttals, because I am not aware of them, and I am not on a search and destroy mission. This is what I know and has served me well all these years. and I'm not about to persue this with you and end up casting doubt upon my faith. Because even without the watchtower society as "lord over my faith" I truely believe that Jehovah would have an identifiying organization to direct people to him today. the truth that I have learned, I learned through this organization. the people within it are my family. I will be loyal to that. come what may. I don't feel I have anything to lose, because I couln't have lived a happier life without my knowledge of Jehovah. So, there you have it. I don't think I will debate what I do not know, nor wish to know. I will stick to the scriptures. that is what I base my faith on. I'm not turning my back on you. I'm your mother. But you won't be doing me any favours if you try to cast doubt upon my beleifs. I expect your search will lead you all over the place you will have to prove it to yourself as we all must . I hope whatever you find leaves you with peace, because when all is said and done, if you don't have that. you have very little. You and I are at differnt stages in life. I happen to be very satified about who I am and where I'm going, and for the most part I'm very happy about where my life has taken me. You on the other hand still have questions, and for the last 20 years you've heard my answers. So now you have to learn who you are and what you want out of this life. you are your own person, I understand that, But reguardless of our now being on different sides of faith, I am not your enemy, and I never will be. Sure it's easier to not debate with you, less energy and effort on my part. But I would gladly do it if I thought It would benifit you. But in all honesty I don't think it would, because your in a mind set now, and you will have to experience life and learn all there is to know for yourself.
Very likely we will take different directions from here on in, I hope you will not be loney on your journey, because it will be difficult to find people that really care about you. They for the most part just want to be right. who knows you may be right, or you may be wronge. That will be for you to decide. mom.
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So again, she attacks me emotionally, and I won't act like this stuff doesn't hurt me, because it does very much. I have to intellectualise this though, I can't feel my way through this. She is basically admitted on several occasions now that it's not about whether or not it is right or wrong, its about loyalty and what she knows. This is the grossest example of ignorance and denial I have ever encountered in my life, as it deals with my own mother. I might use Bruce's post on what constitutes a cult to show her it's grip on her, but I might let it slid, I'll have to decide.


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Brandon,
I can tell you at least one thing she is very wrong about, and that is you will find people that love and care for you, for who and what you are, and not because you are part of an organization that requires so much and gives so little in return. I for one wanted to run to you from the first post you posted because I could read the hurt you felt. I know that there are others here that feel the same way. I know that it will be hard, but please try not to let anger rule you, I'm not even going to go into the reasons why I say that, just know that God loves you, He really does.

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Bruce

I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be!! (Martin Luther King Jr. Author)


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Bruce,
I am jumping in finally on this discussion after reading it through. I have come across many different JW'S. Some are not very strict and allow things other congregations would jump on and then there are others who have lived there lives and entwined there very being into this religion. Unfortunatly these are the ones who die for there beliefs and nothing you say or do can change that. My mother-in-law is like your mother. I understand her argument because behind all her veiled statements and loyalty I see more. I see all her family is there. All her friends are there. Everyone who holds her with any respect are there. She has built her entire life around this religion and threaded it into the very fiber of her being. These are the ones who are lost to us and to Jesus for even if they see the lies they cannot leave, to them there is nowhere else to go.
I am sorry for you and for your sadness. I am afriad with any cult there are those who are lost to it forever.
My prayers go out to you and hope you can move on and can be in some way content to see your mother through the glass cage she has made herself live in.
God Bless,
Cat

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Catcarma

We dont change Gods message -- His message changes us.

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitoes? :-P


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2007 6:36 pm 
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Thank you Bruce and Cat.


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar, 2007 7:52 pm 
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I know I'm a long way away, but if you ever need to just talk let me know.

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Agape,

Bruce

I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be!! (Martin Luther King Jr. Author)


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Mar, 2007 1:55 am 
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Hi Mincan,

I wanted to jump in a while back but I never got around to it.

Anyway, WAY TO GO! :thumbup: I don't think I could add anything better. The fact that you understand all what you told your mom, at such a young age, is really great.

You probably know this but the only thing I would add to your situation is to do the best you can living your life. Keep praying for your mom and never give up.

Friendly Sid

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Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is IN YOU—unless, of course, you fail the test? (2 Corinthians 13:5)


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 1:04 am 
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Well a little update:

My mom is being a really good sport about it all, I'm impressed.

Some people I've known my whole life are moving at the end of the month far far away. They have a part on the assembly. My mom asked me if I'd like to go to say goodbye and see their part.

You know what, it doesn't bother me at all. I actually find the idea very entertaining. To listen to that stuff with a closed mind, the other way of course, against it, is so funny! Listening to what they have to say is kind of interesting, like watching ants do their work or something. Apparently this assembly program is full of strong language and commands for the sheep to follow.

Anyway, I got my beard and I think it will be awesome to see all their looks when they see a bearded guy. Oh no! an evil man with a beard! Haha. I've also got the idea of sleeping through the afternoon without a hint of guilt. And laughing out loud when they say something outrageous! Of course I'll probably not sit with my mom, not sure.

Anyway, in other news. I can't seem to find work here in Niagara Falls. I have applied for a college course in my field of stonemasonry at a college campus about an hour south of the capital Ottawa, in Perth. I'm pretty sure I'll get in as I have a year and a half experience in the trade. It will give me an edge in my apprenticeship. Anyway, my family here has suggested I just go back home for the 4 months until my course starts because I have work at home whenever I want it, for however much I want. I think it makes the most sense. The only jobs in Niagara Falls are burger flippers and dishwashers, unfortunately.

However, this time was important to show my mom that she cannot dictate to me how I will believe or what I will do. She agrees that for the few months I'm there I won't be asked or anything to go to meetings, and am not expected to go either way. Once I'm in Perth I'll be 5 hours away and safe from their influence. When I get the diploma in 1-1.5 years I'm thinking of working in the Ottawa Valley region as there is tonnes of stone architecture there. Or the Guelph/Fergus area, as that's where I worked before and there is lots of stonework there as well.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 10:24 am 
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Well congratulations my brother, this is just GREAT to see. To watch you evolve from your first post to what I read now. I'm sure you still have doubts and fears as we all do, but I read and see a new confidence in you. I am so happy/proud for you. The only thing I could "suggest" is to be lovingly respectful if you do go with your mom. I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying, don't comprise your beliefs but also show respect. I hope that makes sense.

On the beard thing, I was talking to my wife about that the other day, I told her that these rules like this are what Jesus had against the Pharisees, making up rules that had no biblical backing. She went on to explain that men with beards scared people and thats one of the reasons why no beards. Do men with beards scare people? I was unaware. Well, I have a beard, not a full beard (I shave my head, and well having a full beard and shaved head looks dumb IMHO) but I do have a mustache and hair on my chin which I was told would be unacceptable. She told me that a JW wouldn't be DF'ed because of this but wouldn't have any "privileges" in the cong. and wouldn't be allowed to go out in service, first, is this right? and second, in their line of thinking wouldn't this be risking immortal life? I mean it's all based around how much field service you do or at least in part, right? Whats funny is my wife loves my beard and hates it when I shave it off, so if I were to become a JW I'd have to shave it off or risk my immortal life, right?

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Agape,

Bruce

I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be!! (Martin Luther King Jr. Author)


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Yes, strangely enough you wouldn't get DF'ed for it, but you don't get any priveleges. My mom talked to an elder and his wife and they both say I can even get dunked (baptized) with a beard?! What the heck? Why would they baptise someone knowing they aren't going to get priveleges. the whole point of baptism in their line of reasoning. Well just goes to show you nothing they do makes any sense.

Thanks for the suggestion Bruce, I do plan on being respectful of my mother and her beliefs. I respect anyone's right to be delusional, if that's what they want. If they want to shove it down my throat, I have a problem with that. Her and I have basically agreed to leave each other's beliefs alone. Althought of course as a witless she hasn't been able to live up to that agreement yet.

I don't think a beard makes a man scary. Maybe more masculine looking. Beard is a secondary sexual characteristic, ya know? It means Male rather than Female. I have a full beard, I started growing it the day I moved out and I don't plan on ever shaving it in the forseeable future. It is my own expression and also a silent protest to witless garbage.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 11:02 pm 
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Thats cool, I'm actually considering shaving mine off, my wife likes it so it's kind of to make a point you know? I'd just like to say "Well, I don't want to scare anyone". :wink:

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Agape,

Bruce

I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be!! (Martin Luther King Jr. Author)


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